Round table 5

Lets get this one cracking.

ToddBlog proudly presents

Diamonds in the rough: a round table discussion.







ToddBlog: We have all been there, getting pierced or tattooed as a teenager, thinking to ourselves "man i wanna do this for a living". Then one day you find yourself scrubbing tools and cleaning a shop bathroom hoping that one day it will all be over and you'll finally be doing what you've wanted to all these years.
Our question to you is:
In a time where the industry is no doubt over saturated with piercers/tattooers, is taking on apprentices a good idea?


Shawn: There's always a need for new blood and new ideas. Just a shame that the new blood that's coming in is tainted with fantasies of how it's going to be.

Used to be someone would joke that they were going to start an apprenticeship and make self deprecating jokes at their own expense about cleaning toilets and busting their asses.


These days all they can focus on is how they're about to have the COOLEST job in their friend circle. The problem isn't the new apprentices, it's the established generation of piercers/tattooers who tolerate or encourage it.


Jareb: I personally think that having an apprentice can be a good thing, and should be encouraged under the right circumstances. I also feel that the majority of today's apprentices are getting away with shit too easily. Attitudes are flamboyantly hoity toity, and the way some of the kids I have come into contact with behave reminds me of those ghetto ass kids who need to be slapped silly. Personally, I don't give a fuck how sweet your gauges are, how many visible tattoos you got, or how long you've been getting worked on. If you are an apprentice, you aren't a piercer yet, so grow the fuck up already.

It is definitely the fault of established artists, as Shawn mentioned. As we get older, I think we just get lazier, and sit back and watch shit spiral out of control. Fewer and fewer apprentices today are humbled into appreciating their career paths. The concept of having the coolest job in their circle of friends is spot on. I mean, who the fuck would really want to pierce for a living? We make shit for money, have no benefits, and even worse hours. Well, the majority of us, anyways. This is why we see so many of the burnt out kids we discussed previously, and why so many turn to tattooing so quickly.

I'd love to see the days of hazing come back. See kids really put through it to earn their spots, and to show their love for what they are about to get themselves into. Apprentices should have shitty jobs outside of the shop to really push them and to show them what they could be doing instead. Days off? Fuck no. If you ain't at your paying job, you should be at the shop cleaning, scrubbing, and learning. Sadly, it just ain't that way no more.

I also can appreciate that there are some artists out there who have apprentices that aren't be wrung through and through, and who will turn into solid artists themselves, but it is a VERY small group.

Cooter: hazing should not come back. that crap strengthens the notion that piercing professionally is akin to being a rockstar and results in finding fun ways to pass the time. This is a job through and through and just like any other job, time is fucking money. If you're not bagging, sterilizing, scrubbing, cleaning, helping customers, or organizing then said apprentice is costing me MY money. I feel that if anybody is to be apprenticed then they need to be led by example not nurtured into being some chud that duct tapes people to light poles as some sort of initiation rite...not that I was ever duct taped to a light pole outside of a "master" piercer's shop once...when I wasn't even an apprentice yet, just a shoppie.

that said, I don't think it's a bad idea for the right piercer, which totals only a handful of people in my mind, to teach the right person how to do the job. I will never take on another apprentice, at least not in the near and not so near future, solely because I haven't found the right person for the gig. Like Jareb said, people like that are the minority and often times the kids that could develop into great piercers are often scared away from digging into the process of learning by the attitudes of the people they may look up to. I know it happened to me and I ended up starting off as a total hack because I was turned off by how people acted at the shop I was at, and I saw the "master" piercer that I was begging to teach me taking in people that where pretty feeble minded and easily manipulated into believing that said "master" piercer was in fact a master piercer and some sort of body piercing juggernaut.

what we need to curb the problem of bad piercers making bad piercers is some sort of clever piercing eugenics program.

Shawn: Hazing and paying your dues are two different things.

Jareb: I think maybe I am just bitter and feel like flogging some of these kids. The sense of entitlement I see makes me want to humiliate them mercilessly.

John: The industry is over saturated with piercers and tattoo artists, but it's over saturated with bad piercers and tattoo artists. I don't have enough volume coming in to support myself and another full time piercer. Unless you are one of the lucky people who work in a high volume shop, trying to get a good piercer to come work for you, part time is pretty impossible.

Even though I've had some bad experiences with apprentices in the past, i really think starting someone from the ground up is the only way to go in a situation like mine.

Jareb: John, you are one of the few who I believe it makes sense to have an apprentice. The skillset you can pass on is invaluable. Even so, it also has a lot to do with the person being apprenticed. The best, most humble, most amazing piercer in the world is still no match for some young 20's scenester socialite.

John: I'm on my 3rd apprentice. After the last two, i was very hesitant to bring in another one.
The first one was already piercing and just needed some polishing. Unfortunately, he thought he already knew enough and turned out to be horribly lazy. He is now a tattoo artist and doesn't pierce at all.

My second apprentice, started out great. He even went to the APP conference with me. He showed a lot of promise and I was very excited about him. Then out of no where he became very lazy, and instead of cleaning tools, or bagging jewelry, he would sit on his PSP and do nothing. I gave him a warning, then he just didn't show up. Apparently the whole apprenticeship was taking too long for him and he was ready to be a rock star and start making the big money. He was a hipster scene socialite and he is also now a tattoo artist.

Michelle Terese, my current apprentice is working out fantastically. She has been here for a little over a year and half or so. Of course there are times when I would like her to do more, but I'm going to feel that way about everyone because this studio has been my life for the last 9 years. Overall, she does what is expected without being told, she's patient, she's excited, she's like a little me. I treated her apprenticeship a little differently than the last two though. Instead of expecting her to be here everyday, open to close, I work around her schedule as much as possible. I know she's going to need another job. I can't offer health insurance, it's just too damn expensive in this state. So I work around her other job's schedule, and as long as she's here as often as she can be, and she's doing what she needs to be when she is here, I'm happy.

ToddBlog: I was more than blessed with my first and only apprentice. As much as we had our problems during her apprenticeship, she has more than made me proud to be the one that taught her. I couldn't imagine having to go through that 2 more times.

Sarvas: I've apprenticed a couple people... one was a 32 year old man who after a year thought he knew everything and wanted to make the same amount of money as I was... He quit when he didn't get a raise and never pierced again... The other on was too shy and couldn't break through and gave up....

The self entitlement of these young piercers are crazy... I think it's because the person who apprenticed them didn't let them understand that even though they can do one navel piercing straight and well doesn't mean they have the knowledge of doing 5000 straight... I think that is never properly thought... that after you learn how to do a piercing... you should know how to trouble shoot the situation when it goes bad, i.e. the client passing out or over reacting.... those things are part of experience.. I think after 5 years of piercing then the piercer really starts to get it... and then realizes that they still have a long way to go... or they just act like rock stars and begin to become hacks....

Hazing is a terrible idea... it thought me that the guys at my shop would never respect me and that I had to prove something to people that didn't care.. it gave me a complex... Doing bitch work taught me how to sweep and mop... if the person apprenticing me taught me the importance of having a clean and sterile environment to pierce in would have been a better lesson to learn.... I didn't learn anything about cross contamination from my "master piercer"... I learned it from previous work in the food industry and taking a BBP class though the state.... bummer...

I feel like the generations of piercers these days forgot one huge thing.... this is a trade... a job you can hopefully do for a long period and make a living off of... The term coined "trade secrets" has been forgotten as a rule of thumb and any and all secrets or techniques are freely given to not just piercer to apprentice but piercer to piercer... Due to this fact apprentices think because they have this info they get it... they understand how it all works... so they start doing dermal anchors without the real knowledge of how to keep a navel piercing from rejecting, or helping a client from properly getting rid of a keloid... you know... what the fuck it that about... Those piercers that think after piercing for a year deserve the same as the one who taught them usually leave and go work somewhere else and start to fuck shit up... then you hear they are apprenticing someone a month or two later...

I think that's why there are lots of bad piercers... it's the blind leading the blind and those trade secrets being thrown around like scene points... anyone and everyone that wants to be a piercer should understand that this is not a cool job... it's not an easy job... and it should be respected and not be glorified on the same terms as being in a cool band... if that respect is not present then I think those secrets should not be even talked about.... show some respect for yourself as well as the trade and realize that those secrets and the years that took you to understand them should be held in a higher standard... especially now... an apprenticeship shouldn't be advertised on the Internet... you should higher a piercer that is worth a shit.... if that or any person understood the knowledge and experience had a value more than $4000 or whatever they want to charge to teach someone... it'd be a lot harder to get an apprenticeship and those people wouldn't be so quick to throw around info to any "peer" at any convention.... maybe I'm just bitter because I see this happen so much here in Chicago... There are a lot of people saying they were apprenticed under Scott Geneya or whatever and Rudy Carrillo when in actuality they just hung out with them once or worked for them at the shop... and these people have apprentices and or have own shops here... talk about way over saturated.... it's out of control

John: the end of that brings up something i was going to ask. how do you all feel about charging for the apprenticeship?

Cooter: like an apprenticeship I think paying for it could bode well if handled correctly.

If I ever charged someone for an apprenticeship, that money would more or less be held in escrow to go toward things like their licensing and registration for industry gatherings type like conference. At the same time I just wouldn't have the heart to take X amount of dollars from some kid that really had to work for that money to not make it back for a very very long time.

As a general idea though, I don't like it because most of the people charging for apprenticeships do it like it's a pyramid scheme or a puppy farm. Get 'em in, take all their fuckin' money, and get 'em turned around and out the door.

John: I agree. Pretty much everyone I've seen that charges, takes their money then treats them like shit so they will leave, and then they bring someone new in.

Sarvas: Yeah... The reason why I said $4000 is that is what I paid... Plus 7 months of 13 hour days with no pay... I just stuck to it.. All the ones before me quit... I never charged... If I did apprentice someone I still wouldn't charge.. But I would slow shit way down... Prime example... John Johnson has an apprentice... And he hung out at the shop and worked for two years before he even changed jewelry... A year later... He was piercing... Now that is a real apprenticeship... And Justin is an awesome piercer and gets the deal because of it... Ask John Johnson what he thinks about this... I bet hos light on this will blow our minds...

Shawn: Charging is a good thing; or rather should be a good thing. It solidifies the professional aspect of it as well as helping thin out the herd. But what I always recommends is pretty much Cooter's theory: Hold the money in escrow. Pay the apprentice with their own money so the shop isn't hit for their salary. If they bail you keep the remainder. If they stick around they're earning a living out of their own contribution.

John: Shawn, that is actually a really good idea.

Sarvas: i completely agree with you, slow is the way to do it. Shelly was hanging out here for a good 6 months before I really started teaching her anything other than how to be a good counter girl. She answered phones and helped customers, but it wasn't until she was here for about a year before i let her switch jewelry for people or do anything piercing related. She's actually been around for almost 2 years at this point and she still isn't doing everything.

Shawn: When I'm not sticking my fingers in some scenepointer's cooch I can be pretty damn smart.

Well that concludes our newest addition. We apologise for not posting for a while and hope to get the posts back up on a regular schedule.

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